[Summit] Baseball Stadium

Mon Mar 2 16:25:30 UTC 2015

Too funny.

http://www.urbandesignassociates.com/uda-news/2015/2/10/your-teams-walk-score

I think a minor league park in Providence COULD be a good thing, but it
really needs to be executed well, and I have little confidence in that.  We
can't give things away, we need to make sure the private investors assume
real risk, so they are committed to success.  We need to be sure the
stadium does not negatively impact the walk-ability and round the clock
appeal of the area.  In theory, it could be nice. Still sad to see it leave
Pawtucket, of course, but my real concern is that RI/Prov doesn't get so
scared by threats to "expand the search to MA" that they give away too
much.  Where are they going to go in MA?  Can't go too close to the BoSox,
Lowell already has a team. Gonna go to Springfield?  I don't think so.
Fall River?  Go for it.  This has to work for the city and the state or
else we pass, IMHO.

On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com> wrote:

> What the 38 Studios mess showed conclusively, is that being a baseball fan
> clouds the judgement of members of our General Assembly.  Do we really want
> a baseball stadium so close to the State House?  Wouldn't that be like
> providing an open bar at a convention of Alcoholics Anonymous?  --  Bob M
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Gayle Gifford <gayle at ceffect.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Mr. Cagen,
>> You have made assumptions about my interest or lack thereof in sports
>> that are quite a leap from the content of my post.
>> Whether or not I like baseball is irrelevant to the discussion of the
>> pros and cons of moving this stadium to the proposed spot in downtown
>> Providence and the discussion underway of public subsidies and best use of
>> the I-195 land.
>> Best,
>> Gayle
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cagenlaw at acagen.com [mailto:cagenlaw at acagen.com]
>> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 7:23 AM
>> To: Gayle Gifford
>> Cc: summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>> Subject: Re: [Summit] Baseball Stadium
>>
>> From the nomenclature and tone of Gayle's posting, it's clear that Gayle
>> is not a sports fan, and most assuredly not a baseball fan, which likely
>> explains the lack of appreciation of the economic value of bringing a minor
>> league stadium to downtown Providence.
>> I am a bit torn about the Providence stadium. I see it as an immense
>> asset in propelling the revitalization of downtown, but I also am angry at
>> ripping the PawSox from Pawtucket, which has enjoyed civic pride and
>> national name recognition because of its Triple A team.
>> Last spring I went to a family gathering on a Sunday in Wilmington, N.C.,
>> to celebrate by aunt's 90th birthday. The next day, rather than drive
>> directly back to the Charlotte airport, I decided to drive 155 miles to
>> Durham because of two of my passions --  baseball and the desire for social
>> justice.
>> On my agenda were participation in one of the Moral Monday rallies, which
>> have been held to protest the actions of that state's mean-spirited
>> legislature, and to see a baseball game at Durham Bulls Athletic Park, the
>> home of the team made famous by the movie "Bull Durham." Hopefully, there
>> would be at least one Durham home run and the bull would snort, just like
>> in the movie.
>> Unfortunately, the people of North Carolina did not schedule that
>> particular Monday to put their legislature to shame, so I have yet to
>> participate in a Moral Monday.
>> But I did see the Durham Bulls play in a gem of an urban ballpark that
>> shows off its surroundings. The bleachers are adjacent to other brick
>> buildings, inspiring a visitor to explore the rest of downtown Durham, just
>> as a fan might do at AT&T Park in San Francisco, Coors Field in Denver and
>> Wrigley Field in Chicago. I enjoyed the setting as much as the game,
>> although I was getting increasingly frustrated because going into the ninth
>> inning, there were no Bulls homers and no snorting. Then with two outs in
>> the bottom of the ninth, a Bulls player homered to right field, the ball
>> almost hitting one of the adjacent buildings, and I was rewarded with two
>> snorts from the bull atop the scoreboard in left field.
>> (The scoreboard itself is modeled after the Green Monster).
>> McCoy Stadium sits alone, without any other attractions, as do, say,
>> CitiField in New York and Miller Park in Milwaukee. Even though they are
>> located in cities, they are not urban ballparks that are going to entice
>> fans to see and spend money in their cities. In Providence, I could easily
>> see kayakers waiting for "home run baseballs" as they do at AT&T Park. I
>> can envision walking down Dorrance Street to Westminster Mall and shopping
>> there. And yes, I can look forward to stepping out of the Garrahy Judicial
>> Complex and walking one block for an afternoon off at a baseball game.
>> I'm confident that we are all nimble and resourceful enough to
>> accommodate Gayle's desire for a park and to take advantage of this
>> opportunity.
>> Andy Cagen
>>
>>
>>
>> > The City of Providence is going to have a hard time stopping the
>> > Stadium as it does not control the I-195 land. But it will be
>> > important for residents opposed to any deal to speak out.
>> > As Julia said, the spot the owners have chosen is already the site of
>> > a park in development. According to  a recent Providence Journal
>> > article a park in the area is required under the federal financing
>> > deals for the highway relocation and many people have been working for
>> > long time on the park design and the design of the Pedestrian bridge.
>> > We, the taxpayers, may already still be paying for the debt on McCoy
>> > stadium and financing.
>> >
>> > While I'm not inclined to use the word scum, I do take umbradge at the
>> > idea that a small group of wealthy owners has a new toy and is
>> > oblivious to anyone else's work or life but having their eye on a
>> > piece of property that has already been designated for a different
>> > use. And that  he cares so little for the river and its value to
>> > anyone else other than something to hit homerun baseballs into.
>> >
>> > Pawtucket has pretty much said that there would be no big economic
>> > loss to losing the stadium (other than a few bars and the
>> > organizations that th PawSox made contributions to), which does make
>> > one pause as to how Providence would benefit economically if in all
>> > the years that McCoy has been there it hasn't generated any economic
>> multiplier effect.
>> >
>> > However, moving the stadium to Providence and increasing the number of
>> > seats would potentially make more money for the owners as the stadium
>> > could capture people working downcity during the day who could walk
>> > over or, as the owners are hoping, Massachusetts folks taking the
>> > train to Providence and walking over.
>> >
>> > The Ryan Center at URI (another sports project of CVS's TomRyan) was
>> > built with $18 million in state appropriations and $21 million in
>> > revenue bonds (which we are also probably still paying for). Only $15
>> > million privately financed.
>> >
>> > I think it is a terrible idea. I do wonder what the impact of 74 games
>> > - mainly in the evening, plus Brown University football games, plus
>> > outdoor concerts and other events will have on Fox Point, College Hill
>> > and Downcity living. Ball games come with lots of music and stadium
>> > lights.
>> >
>> > According to the papers, the owners are asking that the land be
>> > given/leased to them for free. Apparently there are many problems with
>> > that, again because of the financing and debt to move the highway and
>> > open up those lands which were supposed to be recovered through the
>> > sale of land. And if land is given to the ballpark, won't all the
>> > other potential settlers in those lands also expect the same deal (Not
>> > that they aren't already asking for tax-abatements).
>> >
>> > There is an alternative site circulating which would be on the Victory
>> > Plating property,pushing it farther out of downtown, nearer to the
>> > Allens Ave area and backed up  to the highway.  And David Goldenberg's
>> > idea to move it farther down Allens Ave to the "Carnal Knowledge
>> > District" (funny op ed this week).
>> >
>> > But a question I've been asking all along is what will be the impact
>> > on all of that I-195 land with sea level rise or a Category IV or V
>> > hurricane which is long overdue to strike here? Wouldn't the best use
>> > be to figure out a way to mitigate the storm damage to protect the
>> > exiting downcity investments?
>> > What is the cost of having to rebuild downcity and south of downcity
>> > and up the rivers?
>> >
>> > From the Metro Special Area Management Plan 2009:
>> > "Providence's vulnerability to flooding stems from two main geographic
>> > features: its location at the head of Narragansett Bay and its low
>> > elevation downtown and along the port. During the Hurricane of 1938,
>> > Providence experienced a storm surge of more than 15 feet above MTL,
>> > with waves measuring 10 feet above the surge level (CRMC, 2007a). The
>> > hurricane flood waters inundated parts of downtown, which damaged
>> > buildings and other infrastructure, destroyed cars, and demolished the
>> > wharves of the inner harbor. Transportation, water, and other
>> > utilities were not operational for over a week after the storm. In
>> > Providence, damage amounted to $16.3 million, equivalent to about $225
>> > million in today's dollars. In 1954, the downtown area was flooded by
>> > 12 feet of water (Vallee and Dion, 1996).
>> > Damage is estimated to have been $25.1 million, about $134 million in
>> > today's dollars (Providence, 2000). Further, these damage estimates do
>> > not take into account the increased development in the City over the
>> > past half-century; they are simply updated dollar losses of the
>> > monetary losses of 1938 and 1954. One can surmise that the havoc
>> > wreaked on the City of Providence by storms of these magnitudes would
>> > have losses totaling much more than the amounts given above."
>> > http://www.crmc.ri.gov/samp_mb/MBSAMP_Hazards_Jan2009.pdf
>> >
>> > Gayle Gifford
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>> > http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.
>> > us SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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