[Summit] Fountains

Fri Jan 4 02:00:36 UTC 2008

I'm with Amanda - II can't believe it is such an "almost impossible
feat to simply have a water fountain such as has been done in
hundreds of thousands of places through the centuries.

I love what Jon said about the little kids enjoying it.  As for the fears
about kids putting their hands in it, etc. - sure!  Have you ever been
to the Children's Museum?  The small visitors have a ball playing
with the running water exhibits there.

I think that we have gotten so germophobic in this society
that it has gotten out of hand.  Purify the water  as it is running?
Fine?  Demand some level of cleanliness that requires 
superhuman amounts of money and machinery?  No.

Actually, I find that I can no longer go swimming in any pool
because the chlorine in it (a toxic chemical originally developed
as nerve gas during World War I) makes me sick.  The JCC
is off-limits to me, not just the pool, but the rest of it, because
the fumes pervade the building.

There needs to be some kind of balance in our approach to
these things - something between dirty/disgusting and a
chemical stew.  In fact, it has been shown that children
need exposure to moderate amounts of bacteria to develop
strong immune systems.

Anyway, there are many wonderful fountains out there -
and people seem to manage them somehow.  Surely 
we in Providence are smart enough to do the same.

Blessings,

Liberty G
---- Bresler E <breslerfamily at gmail.com> wrote: 

=============
Well folks, I would also love to see the fountain there. I really mean that,
I like water,  but because of my work at the Mikveh I am a trained,
certified, pool operator, and I understand why the parks department wants
nothing to do with it.

Safe, recirculating water, especially without temperature control of the
water, is an almost impossible feat.  Birds will poop in it. People will
cough near it. Dirt blows around.  Then the sun will ferment it. Children
can put their hands in it. How much chemicals do you want to put in this??
Running water is wasteful, it's true, but non-running water is what makes
stagnant ponds.  The aeration of the fountain would help some, but not
enough to be trusted. There are other water treatments besides chemicals,
but they are even more expensive.

Water in pools which is not very carefully maintained can and has
transferred all sorts of water borne illnesses including: shigella,
listeria, ecoli, legionaires disease, herpes & other viruses.  I haven't
heard specifically, but I bet MRSA also.

Sorry, for the bad news. Times have changed.  I'm not sure if it's good,
because we care more what happens to others, or for a not-so-good reason,
like fear of being sued. I remember fountains when I was growing up, but it
was also common knowledge that the water was very unclean.  Now people seem
to expect better.
Unless someone has a way around this?
Elianna
*********************************************************************
  	 From:   	  Amanda Woodward <awoodward7 at verizon.net>  
	Date: 	Thursday, January 3, 2008 12:16 PM
	To: 	Jonathan Howard <jon at ceffect.com> Add to Addresses
	Cc: 	summit at sna.providence.ri.us Add to Addresses
	Subject: 	Re: [Summit] Fountains

I have seen similar fountains set up (the one on the MIT campus is terrific - same idea plus boulders to sit and climb on - dreamy for the little ones).

I can't imagine that it is all that hard to convert the Lippit fountain to a water conservative system. 
Please keep us posted on the response to your requested approach (crazy you, wanting to get the facts first then make a decision!).

----- Original Message ----
From: Jonathan Howard <jon at ceffect.com>
Cc: ","Summit at sna.providence.ri.us"" <Summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2008 11:59:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fountains

As I've heard it, the rationale is about cost and technical feasibility. Evidently the mechanism is damaged so there would be a cost of restoration. The Director of Parks Alix Ogden also once told me that our fountain does not recirculate water, so there would be a high cost of the water itself, not to mention the water waste.However, I can't imagine that recirculating the water is that difficult a feat.

The bottom line is we just don't know much. What's wrong with the fountain if anything? What would it cost to fix? What other options might the community prefer? What happens to the fountain if we fill it with dirt? What conditions, if any, were attached to the gift of the fountain?

The action item from last fall's charrette just says: "Develop a proposal for a planter in the Lippit Park Fountain, to be reviewed and approved by the Parks [Department]."  Like a lot of plans, it jumps to the solution before it defines the problem or the goal.

I have just asked the Dept. of Planning what it would take to revise this item to "Conduct a feasibility and cost study of restoration or re-design of the Lippitt Park Fountain."

In a neighborhood with little kids, I think an ideal water feature should be a play space for under fives. One great example is the water feature in Millenium Park in Chicago - there's a lot more to it, but the basic design is just a large open paved area slightly pitched to a drain down the center. Water flows down two structures at either end to create a massive puddle less than an inch deep. Kids love this. There's also a much more dramatic element - a giant video of faces that spits out water, but most of the time it's just a wet space. Everyone likes to get their feet wet.

Jon

Amanda Woodward wrote:

> John
> What is the rationale behind not turning on the fountain?
> Amanda
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John Bazik <jsb at cs.brown.edu>
> To: Jonathan Howard <jon at ceffect.com>
> Cc: "Summit at sna.providence.ri.us" <Summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2008 9:28:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Summit] Signs and fountains
>
> On Wed, Jan 02, 2008 at 05:03:37PM -0500, Jonathan Howard wrote:
> > One critical issue looms. The goal of filling the fountain with dirt and
> > making it into a planter got incorporated into the draft   neighborhood
> > "plan" (more of a list, really) coming out of the neighborhood charette
> > held in September. I wasn't at that session, so I don't know how that
> > happened, but the Parks Dept. has long claimed that restoring the
> > fountain is either impossible or impossibly expensive. I imagine they
> > see this as a cheap way to resolve the problem of a waterless fountain.
> > The plan is still a "draft" so we can lobby the Director of the Parks
> > Dept, Alix Ogden. I'll also ask the Dept. of Planning to ensure that
> > alternatives to the planter idea are offered. We may have this on the
> > agenda for our Jan. 21 meeting and will let you know.
>
> I was there.  I believe I said that restoring the fountain to working
> order was preferred by the neighborhood, but that plantings are preferable
> to nothing.  I've been told repeatedly, and in no uncertain terms, that
> the fountain will not be turned on again.  If I remember, the notion of
> having plantings hinges on neighborhood participation to maintain them,
> so it won't happen without our input.
>
> However, I'll happily support an effort to get the water flowing again.
>
> John
>
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>

-- 
Jonathan W. Howard
Cause & Effect, Inc.
Helping nonprofits create community change
178 Ninth Street, Providence, RI 02906
401.331.2272
jon at ceffect.com
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On Jan 3, 2008 1:13 PM, John Bazik <jsb at cs.brown.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 03, 2008 at 11:59:17AM -0500, Jonathan Howard wrote:
> > cost of restoration. The Director of Parks Alix Ogden also once told me
> > that our fountain does not recirculate water, so there would be a high
> > cost of the water itself, not to mention the water waste.However, I
>
> Ah, I got it backwards - it doesn't recirculate and should...
>
> John
>
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> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>

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